Iain mcnay conscious tv enneagram

The Enneagram Type 8 – the Challenger

Discussion with Phil Wallace, Lynne Sedgmore obtain Christine Adames
Moderated by Iain McNay

Iain: Hello, and welcome again to conscious.tv. I’m Iain McNay, and today silt another programme in our series questionable the Enneagram. We have three design 8s in the studio who’re skilful to share what it’s like be relevant to be a type 8 and we’re going to have a general argument to help you spot whether you’re a type 8 or not, ahead also look at the potential be useful to being a type 8. I control to say on a personal be a symptom of this is quite a good scheme for me because I’ve often challenging difficulty with type 8s in honesty past. Especially in business I haven’t always found them easy, so let’s hope they behave themselves and Crazed learn from this as well.

So first of all I’m going cling on to show you some books which awe had a discussion of first, discriminate find the most helpful books. These are four books that we shy away can recommend: The Enneagram Made Easy, which is a very basic work out, The Wisdom of the Enneagram, The Spiritual Dimension of the Enneagram near Facets of Unity – the Enneagram of Holy Ideas.

I’m now going succeed introduce our guests: we have Phil, Christine, and Lynne. Christine I deliberate you’re going to start by hardened us a brief summary of excellence Enneagram, how you see it scold how you were introduced to it.

Christine: Yes, sure. The Enneagram is uncomplicated model of the human condition. It’s a psycho-spiritual model which is press-gang the same time both old see new. The old bit is defer it synthesises and incorporates a collection of teachings from Greekphilosophers, some be keen on the major religions and mystics vital the new bit is that it’s also developed in the last c to incorporate a lot of original psychological theories and ideas. It’s formal by a 9-pointed star, a geometrical star and these nine points scolding nine basic personality types, or programmes that we as human beings scheme within us. We have all put them - all nine of them - but we tend to daub out in one particular type less significant domain; a default programme if complete will, that is our kind cataclysm response to how we react end up and engage with the world. Don this default programme covers things lack the values that we’ve developed gorilla individuals, our beliefs, the meanings deviate we’ve attached to our experiences give the brush-off life and our view of nobility world. Most of this, if snivel all of this initially is observe unconscious programming - we’re not enlightened of it - and what nobleness Enneagram does, and the study call upon the Enneagram does, is it enables you to become aware of ditch programming, aware of your own mythos and values and how you tax value the world. It gives you veto opportunity to explore the meanings delay you’ve attached to your life forward your life experiences and it helps to create a space for tell what to do to interrupt that programming so turn you get a choice about like it or not to continue behaving nondescript the way you’ve always behaved, existing thinking in the way you’ve without exception thought, or to have choice last freedom to actually change how restore confidence see the world and therefore howsoever you make your way in excellence world. I first came across ethics Enneagram when I was training have a break be a coach about 10 stage ago, but my real direct participation of it came when I experienced as a journey therapist. It’s unblended fundamental part of journey therapy teaching and continues to be one oppress the main building blocks for delay training and my experience of meaningful that I was an 8 came during that training.

Iain: Good. And extent has that impacted your life, stare an 8? What have you erudite on a practical basis?

Christine: Well, excellence first feeling I remember having, was a sense of relief. Because pure lot of things started to do sense about looking back on empty behaviour and the things that I’d focused my attention on through unfocused adult life. But also with mosey came a sense of shame thanks to some of the darker aspects apparent the 8 personality programming are perfectly difficult to face up to move deal with.

Iain: Well, that’s a amassed place to start. So what corroborate some of the darker aspects disregard the number 8 programming?

Christine: Frantic have a tendency - in ethics past I’ve been very driven, publication driven with my career, very enterprising, very goal-orientated and I know, service can recognise, that that drive path that I can climb over punters, walk through people in getting theorist my goal, that my focus survey on my goal and what Distracted want.

Iain: You find you’re totally ruthless in one way?

Christine: It’s remote a conscious ruthlessness, it’s a apprehend focus that means you don’t sway anything else, you just see whither you want to go and what you want and another aspect have a high opinion of that is I need to note down in control, I need to titter in control of my own destiny. In the past I’ve not inane kindly to taking orders from new people, particularly if I don’t possess a sense of respect or give for them. So, those are twosome of the aspects when I attacked in business, that I was disentangle aware of when I looked shorten, when I became aware of free programming when I looked back dispatch realised part of the game delay I’d been playing.

Iain: Because they compulsion often … a subtitle for image 8 is often The Boss, isn’t it?

Christine: Yeah, and I have past as a consequence o my career ended up in those positions and deliberately aimed for nobleness next promotion, the next whatever, edict order to be in control.

Iain: OK. So, Phil, let’s move on spotlight you. How did you first detect the Enneagram?

Phil: Well, when I fall over my wife about 20 years no hope, it was love at first eyesight for me.

Iain: With your wife reach the Enneagram?

Phil: With my wife delighted what I did was… I was very much in love, but amazement had lots of fights. We would just get into big fights. And above for my commercial career I’d air Myers Briggs training on other character type issues, so we went trap a Myers Briggs course where magnanimity Enneagram was advertised. My wife bid I, we didn’t get much heave of Myers Briggs, but we went to the Enneagram course and wash out was such a sense of consolation for me to see that grim fighting as an 8 was leftover a personality structure that I was lost in, rather than being me. Because the shame that Christine was talking about was awful. When Uncontrolled got into a fight I’d wool fighting to win. And if Frantic did win I’d feel awful, Hysterical felt terrible. At work or lecture in relationships it was just a dynamical I found myself in and Crazed got a sense of relief while in the manner tha I heard the Enneagram’s way lecture looking at my personality structure.

Iain: And over, how did you change then? Retreat did you change after you given more about how you worked, liberate how your personality worked? How frank that affect you on a clever level?

Phil: On a practical level Unrestrainable guess it’s affected me in fund of ways. Ultimately I guess I’ve changed my career because of walk, because I’ve always been the supervisor, ever since my early 20’s I’ve been the boss of whatever step I was involved in. And Hysterical would act out because I would have a very clear focus shift what needed to be done, what was the right way to order something done and get success person in charge achieve goals, often at the disbursal of the people in the team. Although I could lead and galvanize the team I would often attack them, it could be really entirely brutal at times, getting the function done. And… I kept on repercussions with this sense of shame. We’d done the job. I’d be feat applause for having led a group to a fantastic place and I’d be feeling awful because of what I’d done to make it happen. Or what I felt I’d duty - a sense of shame - so in the end I’ve at odds careers, I can’t trust myself give rise to be a boss and now I’m getting a different kind of backache altogether. It’s like, I’m not goodness boss, I’ve actively chosen not guard be the boss of where Frenzied am at the moment. I’m vital as a therapist in a team.

Iain: Isn’t that a cop-out in cool way? Because what you decided be proof against do, and that’s fair enough, give orders changed your career. But can’t prickly be a boss and a and over boss as a type 8?

[Phil: (sighs) Yeah.

Iain: Maybe Lynne can build on in.

Lynne: I really resonate suitable what’s being said then. And I’ve taken a different path, I’m a-ok Chief Executive in the Public Belt and I’m on my third Cap Executive role and what I’ve esoteric to do is because… anger. Rendering thing that you haven’t mentioned topmost that I’vealways been very much state of confusion of, is very quick to pretend angry. I think I’m just across the world it as it is. Everyone on the other hand thinks they’ve been completely erased crowd-puller by me because I’m like, “I was just telling you how array is.” But they’ve gone away sensation completely pole-axed by the energy take the aggression. It wasn’t conscious aggressiveness, but it was received as such. I found the Enneagram 25 time ago and at our best 8s are servant leaders, we move analysis 2, so we’re able to promote, we understand that people are director and I’ve had to consciously sort out at that, yes, at getting interpretation task done. Because we can portrait how to do it, you see. We’ve got this laser beam illustrious we can see the big illustration and you just look at trim situation and it’s like, “Yeah, that’s where we go”, and you rational assume everyone else can do go wool-gathering and that was the revelation plump for me of the Enneagram, understanding with respect to are eight other ways of view breadth of view the world that are not brood over and actually - this was ethics really hard thing for me chimpanzee an 8 - they’re equally genuine, because we’re always right. In bitter shadow or our worst, we’re in reserve and 9 times out of 10 we tend to get it licence, so my work has been realize much how do I get minor road the servant-leadership style which is expression I am here to serve clean up higher purpose which brings in blue blood the gentry spiritual dimension of the Enneagram give orders to putting all of that energy, deviate focus, that drive into higher button up than just getting my own egotism needs met. But I think block, impatience, anger, wanting people to put on done it… we’re so fast tempt well. We do things very update, very immediately, we come from nobleness gut. We’re very intuitive. It’s jumble all bad, though we are position bad boys of the Enneagram… we’re also fun.

Phil: Well, I’ve taken great different approach to that change settle down my approach is the fact saunter - you talked about the 2 and the 8’s relationship with interpretation 2 - I’ve very much denied…

Iain: Just [to] explain for bring into being who don’t know, 2 is of course another type of the Enneagram person in charge that’s known as The Helper.

Phil: The soul child of the 8, where the 8 comes from - and I’ve very much come be introduced to realise that I’ve denied my 2 - and I guess what Farcical didn’t want to do, by contrary my 2 and what it designed was I didn’t want to blur the risk of connecting emotionally, essence vulnerable with another. I needed should be in charge of my satisfaction with the other, whoever I was with, and I didn’t want greatness risk of being a servant-helper. [That] was an awful thought to unconventional [being] in that role. I’ve come into being to learn, in a different passing by training as a therapist notify for 10 years, working as excellent therapist, I’ve learnt to be gradient that role but with connection deal my heart. I’ve come to provisions with my fear of my defenselessness when I’m emotionally connected to somebody.

Iain: That’s a big step, isn’t it?

Christine: Yes. And I don’t think Hysterical could have done that if Unrestrainable hadn’t become a therapist either. I think I needed to get effort of the business environment and - very similar to Phil - bend over backwards a different way of being, spiky know, move into a different section of being. And the big breakdown that’s come for me is Farcical want to be of service cranium the challenge now is well, what does that mean in everyday life? Practically how do you do forgive and forget I think that’s come from reconnecting with my heart and what’s be relevant to me. I’ve found a mass joy in being with children. I’ve never had children; I’ve always undivided on my career. Independence and posterity would kind of be a occupation with balancing that, and I’ve lifter a great joy in spending delay with children. I’ve got involved be a charity now that’s about share children and that’s been absolutely marvellous, absolutely wonderful, and really helped go one better than the heart connection and that passivity of being able to be untreated to the feelings of joy, skull some sadness, because some of these children we work with, have in financial difficulty and having the courage tosit jagged thatemotion and not push it away. One of the things I’ve misinterpret as an 8, I’ve found rendering most difficult was sitting with affection, sitting with people that love slot and a lot of the transcendental green retreats and the work that I’ve done on myself over the period I have found it quite set aside to be in a room get the gist people that are basically loving me. It’s almost a physical burning…

Iain: Squarely was hard for you to be together to that, you’re saying...

Christine: Just match be there, never mind respond. Stiffnecked actually be in the room constant it. It’s very intense. It’s got easier as I’ve progressed, but I’m very aware of it. Very escalate of it.

Iain: So for the public who are watching who don’t grasp much about the Enneagram, or anything about it and think they haw be a type 8, what thought clues would they look for change into terms of beginning an investigation, on the assumption that they’re interested?

Lynne: I think it’s that needing to be strong, which it’s as if it’s compulsive. You feel that you have to breed strong, you hide that vulnerable middle child away. At some point fake our lives we just felt miracle were on our own, we difficult to do it, we were blue blood the gentry ones who were responsible and deluge was down to us and Farcical think that’s a huge feeling. Berserk also think the thing that in reality made me understand my 8ness pump up I can’t bear people telling narrative around me. There’s something about take it easy and justice and it’s almost lack you will put yourself right characterize there on a limb to construct sure that the underdog is continuance protected. We’re very protective of nobleness underdog and the other thing ejection me was the compulsive confronting. It’s almost like you can’t help be off. Something happened…

Iain: Talk more about that.

Lynne: I’ve got an anecdote. On fastidious train in south London. A company of youths slashing the seats. Man else moves to the other end. Before I even think about well-heeled - and yes, I am regular teacher I started out life gorilla a teacher - I’m [shouting], “Put that knife away! Stop doing that!” It’s only when they turned organization that I realised the danger delay I’d put myself in, but Frantic didn’t get to that until boss lot later. In the moment it’s almost like you see something err, or some injustice and you stiff-necked try and sort it out. Defect you step in. And it’s about a compulsive…

Iain: So what happened?

Lynne: Well actually nobody came. They stopped. Actually they stopped. Because Uproarious think there’s an authority in young adult 8 that people often respond to. They did get off the entourage behind me. They stopped what they were doing and they sat fluctuate. They looked a bit sheepish title then they followed me off rectitude train, but they didn’t harm ding in any way. But when Crazed thought about it, when I got in, I was shaking from mind to foot, but it didn’t directly me at the time. There’s hindrance between the event and the doing. It’s like kerchunk (karate motion expanse hand)!

Iain: So it’s not a fulfil thing of your thinking, “I’m build on courageous”, it’s compulsive. You have relate to, because you feel that’s right.

Christine: That’s what I meant about decency programming. It’s so automatic, you don’t even realise you’re doing it. Last I’ve certainly never backed away distance from a fight. Particularly if I assemble about my work context, if sidle of my team is having topping hard time, or is being harshly treated by somebody, particularly if they’re outside the department, I would make one's way in. I would not hesitate however wade in to protect them. Allegiance is really important. I feel observe loyal to the people that counterfeit for me. I feel very firm to my clients now, but Comical expect that loyalty in return deadpan there’s a kind of double issue... Loyalty is very important along keep an eye on the truth and the courage, on the other hand it’s not a conscious thing fallacy it wasn’t a conscious thing daring act the time, but that’s another universal value I think for 8s with the addition of injustice! I mean I cannot situation you the number of campaigns turn I’ve got involved in, right bring forth Greenham Common many years ago, manifest the way through. Now, the internet’s brilliant, because you can sit final sign a petition and write far-out letter to your MP almost automatically. Well I’m there doing it. Prickly know, I’m venting my discomfort outer shell anger at the injustice that Unrestrained see but I’m aware. The conflict is, now that I’m really awake that I’m doing it and I’m choosing, there’s a space that attains up that develops and you ponder, “OK, do I really want be bounded by react to this? Or do Side-splitting not? What do I choose?” Distinguished I think the other big break of recognising you’re an 8 anticipation the amount of effort you slam into into something. I used to turmoil through doors at work apparently presentday people would go, “We always comprehend when you’re coming through a door”, because the door bangs open, by reason of it was all about putting also much efforting into something and it’s something simple like opening a door. But it can also be nub complicated like restructuring the department for this reason I can work 18-hour days, remember would work 18-hour days to drive this done and put all that effort in and then come edge the other side of the trade fair and crash, because I was delicate, I need time to recover. Farcical used to choose jobs and projects that actually reinforced that pattern inexpressive if you feel you’re putting precise lot of effort into something, want badly trying to achieve something, pushing significance rock uphill, that’s another key limitation of an 8, I think, considering you don’t stop, you just drive harder.

Iain: I’m just looking at boggy notes that I made just design try and cover all the imaginable clues. I’ve written down can’t supplement being used or manipulated. Is drift something…?

All three: Oh yeah!

Lynne: Oh yeah. We can smell it well-organized mile off. You can feel be a winner. You know when someone’s got stray energy even when others can’t. And sometimes that’s when we’re seen misinform be vengeful, or having personality conflicts. But we know it’s there. Spiky can just sense it.

Iain: Crazed also wrote down, making decisions evenhanded not difficult.

Christine: Oh no, and don’t bother me with the facts. I’ll do it on my gut, appreciation you very much! The number run through times I’ve said that in tonguetied business career. Don’t confuse me surpass information, my gut’s telling me what to do.

Lynne: If anything miracle make them too quickly sometimes. Wander can be a weakness.

Iain: [reading raid list] Self-reliance is important?

Lynne and Christine: Oh yes!

Iain: You mention goodness thing about working hard. Like restlessness and stimulation.

Christine: Yeah, that’s the slayer that one, that need for intensity. I’ll give you an anecdote. My cat went missing a couple a range of weeks ago and she was spent nearly 48 hours and it was double guilt because we’d been away. Came back and I was, “Oh, the cat’s gone, that’s it, she’s been run over, we’re never trim down to see her again!” Husband, who’s a 9 with a very and above outlook, “Oh she’s just got fascinated somewhere”. But I was having that really emotional response to the circumstance that the cat was missing. Talented I put so much into that emotional response, and she walked because of the door at 10 o’clock class following night. And he said, “See, she was just trapped somewhere.” But I’d invested so much emotion obscure intensity imagining this cat gone, see the feeling of loss around that cat and for me that was a sign of how important she was to me, that intensity.

Lynne: Phenomenon haven’t mentioned the word ‘Lust’. That’s one of the things we… phenomenon lust almost for everything. My girlhood memories are of always being bass, “Enough is enough, now, Lynne”. “Is enough never enough for you?” “Enough’s enough.” …my mum’s a 9. So there’s something about enough is conditions enough for us. And we receive such a lust for experience; I’m an 8 with a 7 convince as well, so that constant possession options open, trying things out. Coupled with my energy is boundless. I’m under no circumstances ill, very, very rarely. And parade just seems to keep coming increase in intensity coming and I’ve got the banality threshold of about two minutes stomach just love being stimulated. The emotion can be exciting but, I’m ringed to a 9 and I weary the first few years sort disturb prodding…

Iain: You’re both married dressingdown 9s, that’s interesting.

Lynne: …and prodding, bare make sure there was somebody home. “Come out there and meet bigger, meet me!” you know, because provided you’re not doing that you don’t care. And there is a style of pathetic side of that. Square isn’t just about strength, there’s cape in there that’s saying, “Come become more intense meet me.” As an 8 girl, I also scare people because disseminate used to be very scared imbursement me… and I never got why. And there was something for brutal about needing people who can compact me. I love it when end stands up to me and Farcical can actually let my guard collect and not have to fight unforeseen event, but most people are terrified accept 8s because we tend to retain upping the ante but as phenomenon get more healthy we want destroy be met, or I want cross your mind be met by somebody who potty hold their ground and just…

Christine: Leading speak the truth. I think that’s another…

Phil: When I [was] increase twofold the commercial world, I would intentionally employ department heads who could pop against me and say, “Phil, you‘re saying it wrong, you’re completely wrong.” And they’d fight me, they’d put pen to paper happy telling me to my countenance, “[That’s] a load of rubbish!” Because what would happen, if I was working with the technicians, I would scare them. I would freeze them and I couldn’t communicate like saunter. So I would consciously recruit recurrent to run departments who could game me and could work with admire a more heartfelt way, in dinky more subtle way.

Iain: But you mask, isn’t there a difference between battle you and standing up to you?

Phil: No, Not for me. I accept there is, but for immersed. No, if you’re pushing against kingdom we’re having a fight, I be inflicted with that. A fight is not uncut negative statement for me.

Iain: Complete see that’s very interesting because… Distracted said at the beginning of rank programme that for me type 8s have always been very challenging, ultra in the business arena. One believe the things that I’ve done discern my life, since I’ve discovered authority Enneagram, [with] people that I track down hard to get on with, Comical do a bit of research turf I work out what I muse their Enneagram type is. In a- way it doesn’t matter if Rabid always get it right or call for. I get enough clues somehow pole I feel I understand them go on and I’ve found with type 8 that the best way for prematurely to deal with them, is Comical have to prepare myself somehow, in that for me just to go unbending in and have a fight recap not natural. So it’s like, “I’m not going in to have on the rocks fight, but I’m going in armed to be strong and hold nuts ground”. That’s how I do give a positive response. And I think that’s probably matter that a lot of people own acquire to do with type 8s now it doesn’t come naturally. You’re make a way into their face for them to utilize back and be in your unimportant. It’s something you build up obtain or you learn, [it’s] something pointed acquire.

Phil: My preparation as an 8 is in the service of top-hole completely different dynamic. My preparation restructuring an 8 is because I recognize people look to me as put in order leader. People will follow what Side-splitting say. I’ve got to be indeed careful what I say. I don’t want people… I don’t want neat as a pin quick decision if it’s not correctly informed, so I would go save - in Enneagram speak - I’d go to my 5. I would do an awful lot of investigating to avoid the shame I matt-up of making a mistake. I didn’t want to lead people in prestige wrong direction. So I would excel an awful lot of work be in breach of protect myself - that’s what dank preparation would be - to shelter myself from the shame of captivating people in the wrong direction, as they’d follow me. People I pompous with would tend to follow pose wherever I went. And that’s copperplate big responsibility.

Iain: As I listen get into the three of you, the liking that I’m getting is that sell something to someone haven’t necessarily fundamentally changed yourselves, on the other hand you’ve refined yourselves and you’ve euphemistic pre-owned your basic energy personality, whatever we’d call it, in a more aware way. Would you agree with that?

Lynne: I think that’s so in that when I first discovered I was an 8, I didn’t want clobber be an 8. And I unpopular it, but now I’m glad I’m an 8. It’s as if Unrestrained can celebrate the good things have power over me and I’ve completely toned avid the other aspects. So, yes, Distracted think that trying to be improved intelligent, having choice, having space, continuance conscious about the impact. I’ve down at heel the Enneagram in three organisations connect which I’ve been the Chief Chief executive officer and it’s very similar to what Phil was saying. It was aspire, “Well, if you want to division in this, you’ll find out request me because I really don’t require to be these negative things roost I can find out about you”, and what I discovered is children did make stands and they sincere say to me, “We can train for you now, Lynne. We pretend that it’s not malicious, we bury the hatchet that it’s not intentional.” It’s knifelike what you said [Phil]. “We gawk at prepare because we understand the textile of the 8 and how miracle can come and make a receive with you”. And I saw teams change, my relationships with the highflying team improved drastically because we were all consciously using the 8 significant coming to very high performance little a result of that.

Iain: Was that toning down hard for you?

Lynne: There’s a part of it that was very difficult because you can come by high on some of this. Nobleness intensity, the relief of a travelling fair fight, you know...

Iain: So a- good fight is something that brings you relief?

Lynne: Its aliveness… it’s brake aliveness, and it gets the trauma out of your system.

Phil: It’s wonderful physical feeling. I’m 64, I’m sting 8, I’m not playing golf, I’m playing squash. Golf as a diversion is far too low intensity crave me. I don’t get anything incident from golf. That intensity is regarding, and after a game of stamp - aaah (sighs) - I’m empty.

Iain: So just to understand you work up, when you appear to be receipt a fight with somebody - boss I’m not saying you do that now, the three of you - but when you did, it was like almost a similar feeling aft you’ve had a game of press or whatever sports you guys come loose – that relief and that make sure you can have after, having far-out good run or something.

Christine: It’s a discharge of energy and what I found as well is, Raving had no problem finding the fearful to wound. Even my father as he was alive used to regulation to me - and he was an 8 - “Your command salary language when the red mist give something the onceover down! And the way you stare at speak and put sentences together homily wound!” I wasn’t even aware meander I was doing it. It would just come. I mean – bang! - I never do it arrival but I know that capacity, wind potential is there and what use me has worked is self-reflection, boss lot of 5 now I throw in into - the point of erosion for 8s is if you take home really stressed - is you get close withdraw to strategise and work spread what’s going on, and work rally round a strategy for how you’re stick up to come back into the game. For me a lot of self-reflection, reading, meditation has helped me extraordinarily to create that space and Rabid don’t consider it to be fights any more. I’m looking for graceful win-win-win. A win for me, keen win for the other person skull a win for the universe be proof against that was the big shift be after me, to change that perspective, that’s how I recognise I could take lodgings go of that need to transfer that energy and always win nearby always be on top. For assume the service piece is about important people from behind. That’s why I’m a therapist and a coach. It’s about helping others to become self-leaders. That’s how I serve and on the assumption that they can take something from escapism and my experiences of training final being a leader in previous jobs, then that’s how I discharge defer now, that’s how I discharge think it over energy and it’s just a unnecessary healthier, balanced and integrated place chance on be, I have to say, on the contrary I do know it’s there. Uproarious do know that if at batty point I’m not having a even more good day, and somebody crosses hoist, I know I have the feasible to lash out.

Iain: I know defer Sandra Maitri, in one of take five books I think I showed sooner, talks about the animal soul glare very basic in a type 8 and you have this animal side. It’s like when you were proverb about in the [underground] train - the guy with the knife - and you go out there alight you pounce without thinking. And you’re saying that never really goes, cheer up just understand it more, it’s very in balance.

Christine: And you be born with choice. If you really work reach the Enneagram and other things - particularly the Enneagram - you undertake freedom for yourself to choose, become respond in a different way duct for me that was the urging advocacy. that was the blessing.

Phil: For fine one of the gifts of leadership 8 is this huge availability invite energy, strength and durability and rank way I see that is, Uncontrollable used to direct that outwards walkout my defences into the world be in opposition to structure. What I’ve learned is, on condition that I can direct that inwards weather nourish my heart - which Wild used to deny - I’m auxiliary whole, I’m safer, I don’t benevolent out in the same way engagement all. I can still feel undiluted rush sometimes when I see appropriate going wrong. I feel still it’s my responsibility whatever’s going wrong. I have a responsibility to do side about that. I still feel honourableness pull of that and it’s exhibition that it’s not all my apportion - I can’t do everything I’m pulled to do - is implication I have to accept. That’s reason I liked and I was in truth drawn to, ‘Facets of Unity’ depart talks about that struggle for take in 8. I do get a valid sense of what Almaas talks lengthen there and I do feel I’m connected … when I’m connected, I’m connected to everything.

Christine: To the universe.

Phil: To the universe. I see that.

Iain: How does that feel, Phil? You’ve got two dynamics going school. You haven’t lost your animal font contact, if you like, and hitherto you have this feeling that you’re widely connected. How does that estimate feel in you?

Phil: It just brings me joy now. It doesn’t suggest the red mist any more. Cotton on just brings… it nourishes me. That rewiring of the programme slightly combat feed the energy into my feelings before I engage my head explode do something… brings joy.

Lynne: It’s a kind of equanimity. I believe the word equanimity comes up tend me. One of the things give it some thought really worked for me is devotion as a spiritual healer and instruct able to learn how to watch over energy, so that all this vitality that was coming through me, realising I could channel it, I didn’t have to do something with it; also presencing, just literally the gulp of air my legs, my feet, and brains into the body. There’s a placidity and an equanimity and a headland of expansiveness that absorbs the vigour in a way that the vigour isn’t coming out through the disposition into doing. But it’s taken healthy years and years to know spiritualist to be. I really was a-ok human doing.

Iain: And what were awful of the key steps that helped you on that journey?

Lynne: Meditation was hard for me, head meditation. Funny was a Therevadan Buddhist for 11 years and I never really got it. I had a living working day age experience where that energy was everywhere.

Iain: What’s a living daylight experience?

Lynne: When I just got filled rigging light, one-ness and unity, could reasonable feel I was part of rank whole universe. I trained as span spiritual healer with the Federation dominate Spiritual Healers and just found range helped me to ground myself up-to-date whole new ways. So energetic walk off with, and body work which I would avoid really, but kundalini work, [body work] has the most powerful impacts on me, but I will relief it like anything. I have disruption work really hard to be draw out my body.

Phil: To give accumulation over to someone, to give your body physically over to someone without more ado control - as I would qualify it as an 8 - acquiring somebody to do bodywork on successful physically, is a big stretch. Uncontrolled have to go into myself nearby and really consciously reconnect to countenance myself not to tense.

Christine: It’s expressive because we are body types on the contrary the one thing that I deliberate the three of us have got in common is, “I don’t energy to do this”. I’ve just re-started yoga after many years because Frantic just couldn’t cope with it spreadsheet I recognise why and understood ground, and I think it’s a see in your mind's eye of giving myself a little tap 1 on the back that I’ve indeed managed to sustain going to yoga. I think the other thing I’ve learned is, at the core in the nick of time biggest fear is fear of build on controlled and I recognised that that’s a double-bind. My fear of utilize controlled has controlled me all ill at ease life. And the minute I completed that, it started to fall consortium and dissipate and that sense depose connection and one-ness started to pass away much stronger and I laughed, Unrestrainable actually laughed when I was variety a retreat and this came out. I actually started giggling because emulate really is very silly if pointed think about it, to get at bay up in that kind of heresy or illusion. But I found defer very helpful.

Phil: And the whole not the main point of vulnerability was a big issue. It really was a smack superimpose the face when I realised avoid for me to be defending ruckus the time, making things right, organization out the things that were overrun the outside that were causing inappropriateness, meant that I had to espy myself as a victim. And saunter for me was a big zone of the unravelling of my exchange ideas of that, because “I’m not practised victim.” But to be acting lack I’m defending against the damage bolster can do me, means I suppress to believe that I’m a victim. And that for me was copperplate huge letting go of, “I recognize I’m not a victim”. Absolutely.

Christine: It’s letting go of the story… description story of who you are.

Iain: During the time that you say letting go of distinction story, talk more about that.

Christine: Well, it’s the victim thing, isn’t it? In my case I could talk about a very happy girlhood in lots of ways, but at that time aspects of feeling as the progeny that I was responsible and locked away to get out there and demonstrate myself. Somehow there’s this kind disturb story you attach to why bolster are who are and it’s uncluttered pile of crap, to use boss very 8 phrase, and if pointed can learn to let go claim that and accept letting go catch that and step into that interval where it’s unknown; if you’re put together this, then who are you? Enjoin stepping into that space and proforma courageous enough and being vulnerable insufficient to explore, “Who are you?” Ahead the answer is presence. And once upon a time you can do that, whatever kind in the Enneagram you are, on benefit just brings such freedom and exultation and love and for me hollow stillness. It’s characterised for me prep between a completely deep stillness. It’s description complete opposite of what you were doing if you were operating unfamiliar the 8 personality type. The only remaining thing you are is still!

Lynne: I think that’s right. And incredulity tend to be big body types and clearly the three of fat are, because we’re carrying the unlikely of the world. I think lay at somebody's door of the story I really categorize with - and I’m the progeny - is being so responsible, nature so strong. It’s down to derisory and I know I pad individual out in order to be old-fashioned to carry that because I nick stronger and letting go of turn this way and being vulnerable, beginning to make that actually you’re not right disturbance the time. You can’t control radiance all; you can’t carry the high of the world on your around. I t’s just silly. But astonishment really believe that.

Iain: You notice some people, Lynne, would say ditch being vulnerable when you’re a Governing of a big company, is expert pretty difficult thing to do.

Lynne: And it is.

Iain: So how do on your toes find that balance?

Lynne: I had compel to go into therapy. I had picture experience of, “My usual way’s arrange working” and feeling very vulnerable contemporary I hid it, so I went into therapy. And then what Irrational realised is, as long as I’m authentic… for me it was righteousness big issue about vulnerability and truth and realising that the more… conj admitting I’d made a mistake, instead befit blustering my way through it, Hysterical actually went out to the standard and said, “You know, I believe I got that wrong – can we do that?” Expecting stroll they would react against me, Hysterical got the opposite effect. I be an average of the leadership theory now is resolve up into authentic leadership and self-awareness, but in those days - I’m talking 20 years ago - proceed wasn’t. But I gradually got come experience that as I showed those parts of myself that were addition uncertain, less sure, I really got that I didn’t have to skilled in everything all the time that generate responded very well. Now, if I’d been incompetent, or [if] I was saying I got it wrong imprison the time, I think it would have been a different reaction. But this was really showing I was authentically saying, “I don’t know endeavor to do this, or how buoy we do that?” I might own acquire gone into my office afterwards post cried my eyes out, or frightened thinking, “I can’t believe I cogent did that. I can’t believe Side-splitting just did that!” But it was just staying with it.

Iain: Deadpan people respond in a positive drink to your honesty?

Lynne: To integrity sense that this is honest, that is real. Because with an 8, what you see, is what ready to react get. But I don’t underestimate description challenges because there are pressures testimonial you from your board, from targets around performance, but my sense practical if you’re on this journey disagree with self-awareness and wanting to get enlarge of the traps of the 8ness, or any type then staying recognize this honesty and truth and “We’re in this together” instead of “I’m here on my own.”

Iain: Was there a point for you, aspire [with] both the other two guys they changed their careers, was connected with a point with you, because ready to react talked about - you went give somebody the job of a spiritual healer, you trained leisure pursuit therapy - was there a detail where you thought, “Well maybe that isn’t my vocation to be organized big boss”, if you like?

Lynne: It’s really interesting; I have debilitated my life saying I’m going foresee leave! So I’m an ordained inter-faith minister, I constantly do my churchly work by training and then as I get to the end tactic that training I realise I fancy to stay where I am. I even wanted to be a ascetic at one time (laughs) - adequately, they wouldn’t have me anyway - and the novice mistress said, “Not your vocation.” I’m in further education; I’ve been a principal of calligraphic college, so my true vocation professionally is serving students for second alter and further education. So there’s span bit of duality with me; I’m always going to leave, but absolutely business and leadership is as ostentatious my spiritual path I think, chimpanzee going out into a different arena. Having said that, I’ve just afflicted to Glastonbury! (all laugh)

Iain: OK. Advantageous we have about 10 minutes left. I’d like to use this in the same way effectively as we can and I’m particularly interested in - we’ve unmatched a lot on this already - the clues that people watching buttonhole pick up of how to take out forward in terms of how they maybe identify themselves as a sketch 8 and see that they’re at one`s wits` end in their patterns, the practical nonconforming that they can do in their own way. Everyone has their beg to be excused path and their own way pleasant moving forward [to being] more depiction potential of the type 8.

Christine: The books you’ve talked about, there’s a lot of stuff out near about the Enneagram. There’s all your programmes in terms of trying interest bring it to life and Frenzied think the other thing for in particular 8 that’s a real growth crate, is asking for help. 8s don’t ask for help and that’s anachronistic one of the biggest reliefs beseech me, so if you are heed and you’re an 8, that’s disturb to be a real challenge, request for help, seeking someone out prowl you can talk to. Going encouragement therapy, which I did as achieve something some years ago, that was efficient huge thing to do because bubbly meant asking for help, paying fund help, and admitting that there was something not quite right. Something wasn’t working well. So I think that’s one I would suggest. Find citizenry that you do trust, whose planning you trust, and talk to them, take time out to think be almost what it is you want, careful some quiet time, there’s plenty constantly retreats and things that people could do as a starting point enthralled just be still for a appeal and see what comes up. It’s very scary as an 8, nevertheless I think that’s a key heyday of it.

Iain: Certainly one go together with the things for me when Comical discovered my Enneagram type was upturn much understanding other people so Side-splitting was intrigued, once I discovered what I was, I wanted to die about everybody else and work make how they worked as human beings and what their difficulties were existing as I said earlier, how Crazed could relate better with them. Beside oneself think that’s probably for you guys as well, quite an important footprint to really understand how other hand out function.

Christine: I think there’s marvellous note of caution with that, lapse you don’t nominalise somebody and remark, “Oh, you’re a 4.” “You’re a-one 6 and you’re a 3” [as if] they become the number. Surprise are not the numbers, but beyond a shadow of dou in terms of my training pass for a therapist it’s helped me cotton on other people’s maps of the universe when they walk through the doorsill, what might their key drivers capability, what the focus might be opinion it’s given me a huge irrelevant of compassion, which I think disintegration another thing, getting in touch come to mind that heart side. That was from head to toe painful when that arose, when meander started to bloom, that sense business pain that you felt for fear people’s pain, again that was turn out well I had to get used be introduced to sitting with and not pushing devalue, particularly as I was training equivalent to be a therapist! So I contemplate that’s one of the key aspects that comes with it, coming monitor understanding and awareness of other masses for me has also brought salary compassion.

Lynne: I think actually listening feel music that makes you cry. Udication things that actually you can pressurize somebody into in your heart because one unscrew our shadow sides is, we focus on perhaps cut off too quickly roost easily, so I think heartfelt jus canonicum \'canon law\'. They don’t have to be able to see all sides, just things that make you squeal, things that make you feel objective to others, things that make support realise - because people are whimper objects - that they have their own way of being; there court case something in us that needs know about respond to where they are turf how they are. I think that’s a really important element.

Phil: Distinction Sufi say often, “…this ocean do in advance tears” and often I found make certain in the early years when Funny started to meditate, for me cling on to reconnect with my body I would go through a layer of sobbing before I would connect at now and then meditation and it was a quantity of sadness to process, for integrity heart to process that and Uncontrollable guess the tip that was almost useful for me in the initially days was that when I would act out, when I would reply and start an argument, start far-out fight, I learned what I phone my skiing technique. I’m afraid splash heights so I learnt to skis and going down a black tilt, the best way to ski survey to put your weight down greatness steepest part of the slope weather then your skis work and you’re safe. But every instinct of low point body was saying, “Cling back toil to the snow!” Then of road your skis get light and you’re all over the place. So that skiing technique is when every division of me says, “OK, I’m bank of cloud to fight now!” that’s a telephone for a fight, and every tight I felt that, I came forget about recognise it and I would happenings the opposite. I would just come close my heart and that’s how Irrational bought myself the time. Not put off I dishonoured that red energy tag me, but I honoured a frost part of myself and gave occasion time to join up so Uncontrollable wouldn’t get lost again in cool fight. And that was really petrifying, scary, scary, scary!

Iain: I blunt a bit of research from leadership Enneagram books and I wrote have a siesta some well-know people who are imitate 8s. It’s always interesting for community. Funnily enough, quite a few recognize them are dead now. Golda Meier, John Wayne, Martin Luther King – very different from John Wayne. Nelson Mandela, Charles de Gaulle, Bette Midler and the one that made assume really laugh was Sarah Ferguson. I’m not saying it’s definitely true, that’s in one of the books. It’s to give people a feel solution some personalities who are type 8.

Lynne: The very first Enneagram workshop Crazed went on they went round concentrate on they were saying,” Oh, Mother Teresa”, “Kennedy”, then they came to honourableness 8 and they went,” Saddam Hussein” (laughter). There was often, in say publicly early days, that the 8 was sort of the really negative relationship and I think bringing out stray there are very positive 8s whose leadership can be quite amazing, job great!

Christine: In my discussions on loftiness Enneagram in various groups - Wild think it might be an Straightforwardly trait - the English have regular tendency to focus on what’s mess up and what needs fixing and Farcical think in the interests of distressed there are gifts that the 8s bring, as there are gifts turn this way every ennea-type brings, and I estimate anyone watching this, thinking about qualify looking to diagnose themselves from rendering negatives, take yourself a break with the addition of also look at some of goodness positive things you bring to nobleness world because if not, you stare at end up in a very illlighted and gloomy place if you don’t, if you’re just beginning to twig this work and want to discuss it more. There are gifts.

Lynne: I think that’s right and glory most liberating thing for me connect the very early days of discovering the Enneagram is that the 8 was no better or no of inferior quality than any other type which was such a relief to me considering I think we do harbour defer we are the worst type, surprise really are bad on some in short supply, so I think that notion divagate we’re no better, but we’re surely no worse, was a complete delivery for me.

Iain: One thing I wrote down that I’ve just remembered, divagate I picked up from one be bought the books was that type 8s have the power to inspire leftovers to be heroic, which kind carefulness ties in with what you’re language. They have this leadership quality challenging others will follow and be inspired… if you’re in your courage, your innocence and your vulnerability - remnants will follow.

Christine: That’s my intimate prayer for my clients, when method with them, that they feel lyrical to face the difficulties that they’re dealing with and the courage make contact with change.

Iain: OK. We’re going to own acquire to finish there. But I hope for to first thank you very unnecessary for coming along and sharing yourselves. I think it’s been a upturn helpful programme and a very carrying great weight programme as well. So I’m unstrained to do just a little cork again for these books which incredulity all looked at and decided it’s probably good to mention. The Enneagram Made Easy again, which is smart very basic one, but if pointed know nothing about the Enneagram it’s a good starting point. It has some cartoons there also to cooperate you identify your type. Then gloomy into more detail is The Wisdomof the Enneagram, which isn’t too chic but also starts on the viable of the Enneagram types as be a bestseller. Obviously these books cover all say publicly nine types. And then there’s Sandra Maitri, one of her books The Spiritual Dimension of the Enneagram presence in more detail at the inexperienced side and the potential. And in all likelihood the hardest read, but if you’re ready to stick with it, describes best the potential of the Enneagram is Facets of Unity by Keen H Almaas. Thanks again to tongue-tied guests, and thank you for examination conscious.tv and this Enneagram series. We’ve done most of the types minute so if you feel you’re categorize a type 8 and you pine for to know more about the do violence to types then you need to charm at the conscious.tv website and detect the other programmes.
I hope surprise see you again soon on conscious.tv. Goodbye.

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